Ken: Thank you so much such getting discussing your hunt with our company

Thanks for the fresh new quote that i had not seen in advance of

I am not sure if you had the means to access Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, whilst is created once the a resource for People in the us that have colonial ancestors from Plantagenet ancestry. The guy offers as one of his evidences one Joanna try the fresh mother out of Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn offered this new properties from Knighton and you may Norton castles inside Shropshire in order to Ralph Mortimer when the guy and you may Gwladus was married. It could have been unlawful getting Llewelyn supply Joanna’s possessions so you’re able to an illegitimate daughter (or individual that wasn’t a child away from Joanna). The fresh new characteristics away from Norton and you may Knighton remained throughout the Mortimer family unit members thereafter. New price is, “That if new Queen offer Property to help you a man that have a lady regarding his kindred into the honest relationship, additionally the woman dyeth instead issue, the guy regarding the Kings case should not hold it getting his existence, because woman caused the the brand new provide.” To phrase it differently, the new characteristics might have reverted back into the fresh new top before it might have been made available to a baby who had been not Joanna’s.

Hi, Marilyn, I did not get access to this new Plantaganet Ancestry of the Doug Richardson, but performed get access to the countless discussions involving your and you may their theories with other genealogists (certain for your, however, many plus up against). In my opinion, when i made in my previous papers, one to what swings it for my situation(Joanna being the hot egyptian young women mother out of Gwladus), is the transfer of one’s features you speak about so you can Ralph de- Mortimer abreast of their ed a couple of their pupils ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose that if Gwladus was the new ded her pupils thus. Regardless of the arguments involving the eminent genealogists We talk about more than, there clearly was an over-all opinion that Gwladus Ddu might be relatively recognized as the fresh new child out-of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth by the Joanna, daughter (after that legitimised) regarding John, Queen of The united kingdomt. I would ike to take which chance to go along with Sharon (from inside the a message in my opinion) one to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian is actually by Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and therefore becoming bloodstream sis so you’re able to Gruffudd. I legs that it partially towards the a modern record found in ‘Royal and other Historical emails Illustrative of your own reign out-of Henry 111,’ modified by the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol 1. To your users 500-503 is the transcript from a distinctive letter dated Marshall, Earl from Pembroke, to Queen Henry 111. Inside page, Marshall discusses his siege of your castles out-of Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy listing the people the guy based in the castle O’Realy whenever they surrendered, it provided: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre ainsi que matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I am advised this ensures that we have right here Gwenllian, child off Prince llywelyn, exactly who appears to be entitled ‘sibling away from Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd is this new illegitimate young buck from Llywelyn, it’s drawn that ‘de patre et matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you can Gruffudd have been full bloodstream brother and you can sibling. Had Gwenllian already been Joanna’s daughter and therefore King Henry’s relative, absolutely Marshall would have stated thereon reality? Which incapacity off de- Lacy’s partner because the king’s niece, was drawn as near certain facts one Gwenllian was not new child of your king’s sister Joanna.

These properties was in fact section of Joanna’s maritagium from their particular dad Queen John

Ken: Thank you for you to mention of the Gwenllian. I am certainly not a professional genealogist, however, I do plenty of search without any help contours. I think a few of the “pros” are really envious and you may enraged of each almost every other (no less than it seems that method in some of all things it blog post). You can find points that we are not likely to know with confidence on members of brand new MA as they failed to continue public record information including we carry out today, therefore genealogists and historians have to use their finest wisdom within the sorting some thing aside. Actually, public information try a pretty “new” concept – of many claims within the united states failed to keep info away from births and you may fatalities before the very early 1900′s. I fall under multiple ancestry societies where I have had so you can prove eleven or twelve generations, and you can trust in me it is hard. And so i most take pleasure in the issue regarding comparing MA ancestors. (While the sad material is the fact that the records that are offered into MA are of your royalty and you may nobility – absolutely nothing after all toward popular some one).